[andyt]

I quickly read the wiki about Oz. Nowhere could I find the claim that handgun violence rose skyhigh, or rose at all after Oz brought in tighter restrictions. (They also did not outright ban them.) Can you pull that part out for me as a quote?

[DrCaleb]

andyt andyt:

I quickly read the wiki about Oz. Nowhere could I find the claim that handgun violence rose skyhigh, or rose at all after Oz brought in tighter restrictions. (They also did not outright ban them.) Can you pull that part out for me as a quote?

$1:

In the year 2002–2003, over 85% of firearms used to commit murder were unregistered.[26] In 1997–1999, more than 80% of the handguns confiscated were never legally purchased or registered in Australia.[27] Knives are used up to three times as often as firearms in robberies.[28] The majority of firearm-related deaths are suicides, of which many involved the use of 'hunting rifles'.[25]

In AUS, it was the suicide rate that increased, but suicide by firearm fell.

$1:

The number of guns stolen has fallen dramatically from an average 4,195 per year from 1994-2000 to 1,526 in 2006–2007. This is because of a campaign by police and shooting bodies, such as the Sporting Shooters’ Association of Australia’s ‘Secure Your Gun, Secure Your Sport’ drive, to encourage secure storage of rifles and shotguns (handguns were already subject to strict storage requirements). Long guns are more often stolen opportunistically in home burglaries, but few homes have handguns and a substantial proportion of stolen handguns are taken from security firms and other businesses. Only a tiny proportion, 0.06% of licensed firearms, are stolen in a given year. Only a small proportion of those firearms are recovered. Approximately 3% of these stolen weapons are later connected to an actual crime or found in the possession of a person charged with a serious offence.[31]

Concern has been raised about the number of smuggled pistols reaching Australia, particularly in New South Wales. However, the ‘grey market’, in which handguns that were made inoperable and then reversed to be made functional again, and longarms that have never been registered in Australia, and then made available illegally to criminals is more of a concern

It was in the UK that gun violence rose.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politi ... rearms_Act

$1:

While the number of crimes involving firearms in England and Wales increased from 13,874 in 1998/99 to 24,070 in 2002/03, they remained relatively static at 24,094 in 2003/04, and have since fallen to 21,521 in 2005/06. The latter includes 3,275 crimes involving imitation firearms and 10,437 involving air weapons, compared to 566 and 8,665 respectively in 1998/99.[36] Only those "firearms" positively identified as being imitations or air weapons (e.g., by being recovered by the police or by being fired) are classed as such, so the actual numbers are likely to be significantly higher. In 2005/06, 8,978 of the total of 21,521 firearms crimes (42%) were for criminal damage.[36]

[Canadian_Mind]

andyt andyt:

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

People would still be using swords.

Is that what the forces are teaching these days, that swords are equivalent to handguns?

Really? You had to pull the army thing? Either come up with a sensible point to argue, or grow a spine and accept that you are either wrong, or have no way to prove your damned point.




Actually, I'll play your game. It's funny, cause they do. They still issue us bayonets for a reason.

[sandorski]

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

sandorski sandorski:

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

I don't like what people with handguns do. The gun is just the tool.

Well then, why give People Guns?

People would still be using swords.

I must have missed the Stats on increased Sword Sales in Canada and other places. Link?

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

andyt andyt:

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

People would still be using swords.

Is that what the forces are teaching these days, that swords are equivalent to handguns?

Really? You had to pull the army thing? Either come up with a sensible point to argue, or grow a spine and accept that you are either wrong, or have no way to prove your damned point.




Actually, I'll play your game. It's funny, cause they do. They still issue us bayonets for a reason.

Holy crap dude, they STILL don't issue razors for shaving in the field?

[uwish]

andyt andyt:

You love hunting with handguns, do you? Nowhere did I mention bows. Handguns are unique in that they are easily concealed. They have no other purpose but to kill people. If you love target shooting, use a long gun or your bow.

My bike doesn't kill people. It makes a positive contribution to society. Can't say the same about handguns in the hands of incompetent or dangerous people.

yes they are easily concealable so? yes handguns can be used against people so? or do you think for self defence people should only use a club because it's more civilized.

In case you haven't noticed, a handgun is perfect for self defence, it's the perfect choice. You just have to get your little head around the fact that there are bad people in the world and sometimes, bad people get shot.

[herbie]

Almost seems logical.
Only if you live somewhere that you think you need to carry a gun to defend yourself, the logical thing is to move somewhere else. Your society is broken.

[andyt]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

In AUS, it was the suicide rate that increased, but suicide by firearm fell.



It was in the UK that gun violence rose.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politi ... rearms_Act

$1:

While the number of crimes involving firearms in England and Wales increased from 13,874 in 1998/99 to 24,070 in 2002/03, they remained relatively static at 24,094 in 2003/04, and have since fallen to 21,521 in 2005/06. The latter includes 3,275 crimes involving imitation firearms and 10,437 involving air weapons, compared to 566 and 8,665 respectively in 1998/99.[36] Only those "firearms" positively identified as being imitations or air weapons (e.g., by being recovered by the police or by being fired) are classed as such, so the actual numbers are likely to be significantly higher. In 2005/06, 8,978 of the total of 21,521 firearms crimes (42%) were for criminal damage.[36]

We're discussing hand guns, and violence against others, not suicides and not all guns. In nothing you quoted can I see evidence to back up your claim that

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

And, look up crime statistics on countries where handgun confiscation was implemented. Accidental shootings do go down yes, but violent crime with handguns goes sky high! Far higher than accidents ever were. I won't go down that road, it's been done too many times on CKA already.

It sounded a little over the top to me, and it still does. But, if it can be shown that having loose regulations regarding hand guns doesn't lead to more hand gun violence that tighter ones, then fine. I have never heard of such proof tho. The US experience seems to argue against it.

[fifeboy]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I carry it rifle hunting for exactly the same reason as I do when bowhunting. It's close, it's easy and fast to aim, it's better close up in the bush and it packs one hell of a whallop. (.44 S&W Mag with 6" barell) It gives me even odds if a bear were to take interest in me, and would be faster than a rifle or bow if a bear were to suddenly charge me.

Wheelgun beats bolt action every time.

Don't you have to have a special permit to move that .44 around with you?

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/wild-sauvage-eng.htm

$1:

Using a Firearm for Wilderness Protection

Fact Sheet

If you wish to use a firearm for protection against animal predators in wilderness areas, here is some information you should know regarding legal requirements under the Firearms Act.

Classes of Firearms

As a general rule, the only firearms allowed for wilderness protection are non-restricted rifles and shotguns.

Only the following individuals are allowed to carry a handgun or restricted long gun for wilderness protection:

professional, licensed trappers, and
licensed people who need protection from wild animals while working at their lawful occupation in a remote wilderness area.

You target practice with a .44? That's not precision shooting, just getting it on target to kill things. Unless, of course, you have forearms like Arnie.

[Canadian_Mind]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Holy crap dude, they STILL don't issue razors for shaving in the field?

Nope.

[uwish]

herbie herbie:

Almost seems logical.
Only if you live somewhere that you think you need to carry a gun to defend yourself, the logical thing is to move somewhere else. Your society is broken.

your words not mine. The violent crime rate is rising, not dropping. Last time I checked your society is the same as mine.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

uwish uwish:

herbie herbie:

Almost seems logical.
Only if you live somewhere that you think you need to carry a gun to defend yourself, the logical thing is to move somewhere else. Your society is broken.

your words not mine. The violent crime rate is rising, not dropping. Last time I checked your society is the same as mine.

Really? Last time I checked (Jul.21, 2011) violent crime in 2010 was at it's lowest point since 1998.

[herbie]

I was so depressed I was going to shoot myself.
But my gun was registered and I would've got into really BIG trouble....

[BartSimpson]

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

They still issue us bayonets for a reason.

Yeah because opening the MRE's is a lot easier with a bayonet.

[bootlegga]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

What do handguns do differently than any other firearm, or pointy object? They all put holes in things.

True, but it's a lot easier to conceal a handgun in your pocket than it is a rifle.

As it stands, I think Canada has it right on gun control - allow rifles and pistols (though heavily regulated), but limit military style weapons like assault rifles. That still allows target shooters and hunters to do their thing and limits the number of really dangerous weapons.