[Apollo]

Mr_Canada Mr_Canada:

There's a lot of literature you should read before assuming it's all mindless.

The irony is that I doubt most anarchists can read. Have you seen what they spraypaint on walls? My 6 year old can spell better than them.

[Apollo]

Mr_Canada Mr_Canada:

Apollo Apollo:

Mr_Canada Mr_Canada:

There's a lot of literature you should read before assuming it's all mindless.

The irony is that I doubt most anarchists can read. Have you seen what they spraypaint on walls? My 6 year old can spell better than them.

Lol, such simplistic and arrogant comments, jeez.

Do you really need me to post pictures to prove my point? I guess mispelling simple words must be part of that literature you were talking about.

[Khar]

I would say that I support the idea of directionless acts of damage by people who do not provide a true message which can be accomplished for change, no more than I would support regimes who use similar levels of violence to oppress their citizens. While those citizens may be forced to resort to such means in the end, it is difficult to compare such places to places like this -- otherwise, no doubt it would be much easier to make remarks about Kristallnacht and similar events in history and their relation in Canada, no?

Just because they are breaking glass and burning possessions does not mean that they are justified in delivering a message. There is a conceit present in such actions, where entitlement and victimization support their own opinion above other's well being and property, innocent or no. There have been times when violent uprisings have been good, but I can hardly draw a similarity to this situation, Mr_Canada, most especially because of the necessity present in those situations is one hard to find in modern Canada. This small group were not protestors, and I think that difference has been made clear -- I would hope both sides would understand the distinction between those clad in black and those clad in goodwill in the course of a thread on that topic. The glorification of this specific group is, to me at least, somewhat disconcerting.

Almost as disconcerting as the amount of namecalling going on in this thread rather than actual discussion. If you would debase your own point of view with outward hostility which will earn you naught but hard feelings, that's your own call, but I have yet to see someone learn anything or change points of view when someone yells obscenities or rolls their eyes enough, either in real life or on the internet. If you can't be moderate (ie calm and polite, not the political viewpoint) in stating your opinions, all you will do is force yourself and the other side into farther, more ardent positions.

Apologies for my various typos.

[Public_Domain]

[Khar]

$1:

Then I suppose we have a difference in what we consider 'wrong' in Canada, Khar?

Why did you put "wrong" in quotations when I never used the word "wrong" (I tried to stay away from absolutes since the event is still young and I have yet to read all the articles)? Don't confuse me, it makes me go rambling off into tangents and then we'll never get back on topic.

Did you mean where I was saying we shouldn't be too extreme in how we react justifiably (if I'll be permitted that largely opinioned and nebulous word), where I questioned necessity, the namecalling bit or where I said I felt directionless violence was akin to oppressive governments?

$1:

I'm not glorifying anyone. I am saying these guys aren't rats.

I did not say you were -- there are far more places to post opinions on the net than just CKA, and far more people willing to express their views off the internet as well. ;D I have read a LOT of people glorifying it, but did not say you were amongst them in any spot.

Although I would contend that these people have not acted in a fashion I would consider Canadian, civilized, in the spirit of change or any such manners -- it seemed the primary goal was, as far as can be seen by us, harm. Emotional, financial, it is all the same. Harm should not ever be the primary goal if we are talking about change where violence is necessary, and I still question heavily it’s use in this case.

$1:

And I'm questioning 'goodwill'.

The protestors are there to change, to make something for the better. Whether or not others agree with them is not the point of goodwill – which those people are there to try and make something better or improve things from their part of view for Canadians is “goodwill.” Again, when harm is the primary motive, and as far as we know it seems to be, then goodwill, if present at all, is a definitive and distant by-product.

$1:

With Poverty, Hunger, and War, perhaps some think it's necessary to make a loud
remark for change. They're ultimate goal is to disrupt the G20. If the Anarchists
could, they'd shut down the meetings. Then there'd be no G20. There'd be no problem.
There'd be nothing to bitch about.

The Anarchists were there to cause mayhem, no? The G20 is there to discuss Poverty, Hunger, and the wars which are derived as such. The loud remarks for change are STILL goodwill. Breaking it up does not stop those issues – it stops it from being discussed, it stops the media from reporting the protestors from having a forum to make a difference (even if some say those efforts have been stilted, I am afraid I am ignorant of the truth of that) and it causes hardship for those who came together to make a difference, as well as those who are already hard pressed by having the G20 in their city of residence.

Yes, there have been problems with the G20. Unfortunately, it is happening now – and striving to mar, not stop, what is going to happen now feels petty. I fear that it does not matter if this was to stop the G20, or just a protest group marching in some small town, this group may still have shown up to cause mayhem. That they appeared in a similar manner in Vancouver during the Olympics, I think, means that laying a message against the G20 on them does not actually make it their true goal.

$1:

If these people didn't have problems, they wouldn't complain.
They are serious, it's not a joke really.

No one has said it is a joke – but I think you should reread again those articles. To be honest, I am finding it a little hard to follow what each newscaster is saying -- and there seems to be some divergence from what I read on my computer and what is being said on the TV (Although perhaps one is just behind the times). In any case, events seem confused, but I do not remember a message being sent from any of the blackclad group -- only the protestors with which they had melded. This group has yet to complain about anything – all they did was break things, set a cop car on fire, and cause mayhem at what had been coined a family event. Their message, if it was presented, is not one I have read yet. As far as is known, this group is not connected to the FFFC firebombing incident or similar other occurrences, although do link me if I am wrong.

[HyperionTheEvil]

Proculation Proculation:

Mr_Canada Mr_Canada:

The statement you are referring to Proc is this, correct?

$1:

And it is SO damn cute that we allow Freedom of Speech as long as it's at the
barrel of a gun

This is in regards to all of the protesters.

Boxed in, watched, allowed to say what they want because no one is listening,
just shields and clubs and cameras.

Remember, some people are more free than others.

They are not protesters. They are criminals profiting the situation to vandalize and steal.
It always the same thing. In the riots in Montreal after Canadiens victory, 100% of those arrested didn't see the match. 100% !

Oh please, the vast majority of the protesters were peaceful, instead of tossing off blanket partisan statements why don't you bring your feet back to the ground and have a dose of reality

[HyperionTheEvil]

CDN_PATRIOT CDN_PATRIOT:

If Fantino was still Chief, we could have had martial law, and these bastards in black would be shot and beaten and then thrown in jail, if they survive.

But....we have Bill Blair, who is a nice guy, and a big pussy wearing a cop's uniform. Until he grows a pair, these anarchists will have free reign, destroying more of our beautiful city.

I'm with Shep. Shoot these fuckers down, NOW.

-J.

Let's see martial law and shooting random people on the street. You might be a good "patriot" for the religious nutbags in Iran.


For Canada, not so much

[Khar]

Hyperon, re: your response to Proc:

He is not disagreeing with what you have said, Hyperion -- he is saying that while most protestors were fine, it was a select few there for perhaps other reasons that violence and damage occurred, much like how a few who were not watching the game chose to cause problems after the Candien victory.

This was not a blanket, nor partisan statement about all protestors -- that was a remark about the black clad protestors, a small group of persons who may not have been protestors at all, which seemed to be bereft of a message but chose not to be bereft of violent confrontation.

Although please, if I have drifted, feel free to tell me where I went wrong -- I am in neither of your heads. However, given that the article is about that one specific group, I would assume he was discussing them. At least, that is what I read of his comments.

[Proculation]

Hyperion: I didn't say otherwise... They estimate the protesters to about 10 000. The vandals were less than 100. I was talking about that minority group. It was the same thing at the Montreal riots.

[CDN_PATRIOT]

HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:

Let's see martial law and shooting random people on the street. You might be a good "patriot" for the religious nutbags in Iran.


For Canada, not so much

Temporary martial law for the duration of the summit would prevent any of this bullshit from happening in the first place. We would have soldiers walking the streets with cops, and order would be kept.

The anarchists should never have gotten a chance to attend and/or destroy property the way they are. Martial law is the only answer. It's time we stopped being so nice and cracked down during summits or high-profile events like these.
The only way to stop the threat is to prevent it first.

And I really don't care how those indoctrinated nutbars do business in Iran. But you know what? If it wasn't for a family member, I would have grabbed a bat and headed downtown yesterday to crack some anarchist skull. I was outraged that my hometown and birth city, which I love to death, wa being torn up the way it was by these anarchists. I love my city as much as I love my country, and I'm sick of people like these wreaking havoc.

So pardon me if I'm a bit hardline and want to see some 'eye for an eye' justice, but I've totally ran out of patience. All Canadians should condemn and be outraged by this kind of behaviour, whether you love or hate Toronto. I would be just as outraged if this happened in ANY Canadian city. No one deserves this.

-J.

[Apollo]

CDN_PATRIOT CDN_PATRIOT:

HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:

Let's see martial law and shooting random people on the street. You might be a good "patriot" for the religious nutbags in Iran.


For Canada, not so much

Temporary martial law for the duration of the summit would prevent any of this bullshit from happening in the first place. We would have soldiers walking the streets with cops, and order would be kept.

The anarchists should never have gotten a chance to attend and/or destroy property the way they are. Martial law is the only answer. It's time we stopped being so nice and cracked down during summits or high-profile events like these.
The only way to stop the threat is to prevent it first.

And I really don't care how those indoctrinated nutbars do business in Iran. But you know what? If it wasn't for a family member, I would have grabbed a bat and headed downtown yesterday to crack some anarchist skull. I was outraged that my hometown and birth city, which I love to death, wa being torn up the way it was by these anarchists. I love my city as much as I love my country, and I'm sick of people like these wreaking havoc.

So pardon me if I'm a bit hardline and want to see some 'eye for an eye' justice, but I've totally ran out of patience. All Canadians should condemn and be outraged by this kind of behaviour, whether you love or hate Toronto. I would be just as outraged if this happened in ANY Canadian city. No one deserves this.

-J.

Although you are more hard lined than me, this is why these anarchists get away with what they do. They know that no one will confront them. They are cowards proven by the fact that they hide their faces. The best medicine for these vermin would be for joe public to pick up baseball bats and kick the crap out of them.

[Public_Domain]

[Apollo]

How many burnt police cars does it take to pay off a student loan? I didn't realize that you were forced to attend university. Outrageous!

[Bacardi4206]

These guys are a small group, are however responsable for majority of the chaos in this protest. They aren't even protesting anything, all they are doing is going around destroying shit. My mom even saw it, she works at scotia bank and they walked down the street where she works. They were breaking every window of every buisness, shop, hell even homes. Everytime they broke a window, they went inside not to loot anything but mess shit up. Clothing stores got there clothes riped apart or thrown around, etc. Than the looters came and took what wasn't broken. From a buisness point of view who has nothing to do with anything they are protesting. Why should he front up not only the cost of the windows they damaged but all the merchandise they lost in the process?

These fuckers deserve to be killed IMO, even if that does sound cruel and extreme. Hospitals were set in lockdown, only extreme critical condition patients were let in. Nobody was let out or in besides them. This is the consiquence of these "protestors" actions. It effects and endagers everybody around them. I hope they overly provoke the police and get a good beat down as a result.

What's funny however from what my mom told me, when they were walking down the street where she worked and saw them destroying everything they saw. They came across a Scotiabank and hit the windows with hammers and everything they got. It had those windows that shatter into a million pieces but don't break. One by one they kept hitting it than ran and it just wouldn't break. The security gaurd came out who was like 80 just screamed "That's right, run you hooligans". It was caught on film too, would make one hell of a scotiabank commercial.

*EDIT* Oh and Mr. Canada, just for the sake of your arguement. Please give me your home address, I will start protesting the G20 by fucking up your house. You know, as you stated. For the good of the cause, any means necessary. It won't accomplish anything but hey, I am a protestor. Apparently I can fuck up anything I want no matter how idiotic and pointless it is for the sake of getting my message across to people who have NOTHING to do with the G20.

[CDN_PATRIOT]

Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:

These fuckers deserve to be killed IMO, even if that does sound cruel and extreme. Hospitals were set in lockdown, only extreme critical condition patients were let in. Nobody was let out or in besides them. This is the consiquence of these "protestors" actions. It effects and endagers everybody around them. I hope they overly provoke the police and get a good beat down as a result.

TOTAL AGREEMENT, BRO.

-J.