[DerbyX]

Chumley Chumley:

EDIT

I will second that, but only after I have my apology for my ancestors being kicked out of ACADIA

I'm sorry we did that. We needed a new golf course. We did a university for you though so that makes us even right?

[Chumley]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Chumley Chumley:

EDIT

I will second that, but only after I have my apology for my ancestors being kicked out of ACADIA

I'm sorry we did that. We needed a new golf course. We did a university for you though so that makes us even right?

I suppose so, but I also want a cake with those colorful sprinkles on it.
And a case of wine.

[EyeBrock]

DerbyX DerbyX:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Chinese and Irish labour may have done the grunt work, but it’s revisionist to believe that without these imported labourers the railroads would not have been built, some other hungry immigrant group would have taken their place in a second. Do you think some Chinese guy was sat around in Shanghai saying “Mmm, I think I’ll build a railway in Canada next week.”


The initiative and entrepreneurial innovation of the railroads was down to Canadian and British leadership and investors.

If that is true then we Canadians shouldn't be proud of our country because if we hadn't built it then some other hungry European county would have settled here and built a nation, probably using the same immigrant labourers too.

Credit were credit is due for the labourers who helped build this country.

Alot of our Irish settlers weren't trying to help buiild a nation or even wanted to leave their homeland but they had no other choice to or else face starvation. They became part and parcel to the backbone of Canada.

Having Irish parents myself ( as in real Irish, born there, speak funny etc) I'm not dissing the contribution of people like the Irish and Chinese labourers, I'm just pointing out that they didn't build the country. They came here for their own reasons. They didn't take a leadership role, this was left to others, to say they 'built' the railroad is not correct. Without the Chinese and Irish the railroads would have still been built.
Without the leaders and investors it would not have been built, even if the Chinese and Irish labourers wanted to build it.
Let's stop the PC slant on who truly led and built this country.

It's like saying Quebec built Canada when they have always been reluctant Canadians at best.
The United Empire Loyalists were the first real country builders here, but you won't find too many 'new' Canadians who even know who they are.
Lets highlight the Chinese labourers over the refugee Loyalist Americans who hacked out Ont, NB and NS from the bush instead. Isn't that the PC way?

[hurley_108]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Having Irish parents myself ( as in real Irish, born there, speak funny etc) I'm not dissing the contribution of people like the Irish and Chinese labourers, I'm just pointing out that they didn't build the country. They came here for their own reasons. They didn't take a leadership role, this was left to others, to say they 'built' the railroad is not correct. Without the Chinese and Irish the railroads would have still been built.
Without the leaders and investors it would not have been built, even if the Chinese and Irish labourers wanted to build it.
Let's stop the PC slant on who truly led and built this country.

You think the entrepreneurs who led the building of the railroad didn't do so for their own reasons as well? Everyone works for their own purposes. Few if any do what they do truly for the betterment of others more than themselves.

The rich and powerful need the poor as much or more than the poor need the rich and powerful. The poor will find some corner of the world to eke out their existence whether the rich exist or not. But without a massive class of people with little but their own sweat equity the rich cannot be rich.

So yea, if it wasn't the Irish and Chinese it might have been someone else, but in ANY event, without a large, exploitable, impoverished group of people, the railroad would not have been built.

[Zipperfish]

Having seriously considered the matter at length, I've determined the Sikhs can blow me.

I'm still waiting for Harper to apologize to the Americans for the ASS-WHOMPIN' we gave 'em in 1812. Seriously, we should strart a campaign.

[Regina]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Having seriously considered the matter at length, I've determined the Sikhs can blow me.

[Thanos]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Having seriously considered the matter at length, I've determined the Sikhs can blow me.

You're on quite the roll lately, chief. Awesome.

[Regina]

hurley_108 hurley_108:

You think the entrepreneurs who led the building of the railroad didn't do so for their own reasons as well? Everyone works for their own purposes. Few if any do what they do truly for the betterment of others more than themselves.

You make profit sound like a bad thing.

hurley_108 hurley_108:

The rich and powerful need the poor as much or more than the poor need the rich and powerful. The poor will find some corner of the world to eke out their existence whether the rich exist or not. But without a massive class of people with little but their own sweat equity the rich cannot be rich.

Respectfully that’s not true. It’s supply and demand which determined the salary. The “rich” may have to pay more but there is always someone to do the work for the right money. You need not a mass of people to do anything if you have time and money. In this case the CPR which in 1878 the massive project was behind schedule and near stalling completely regardless of the mass population of immigrants. Therefore no matter how much cheap mass labor was available the project would go no further without the “rich and powerful” input.

hurley_108 hurley_108:

So yea, if it wasn't the Irish and Chinese it might have been someone else, but in ANY event, without a large, exploitable, impoverished group of people, the railroad would not have been built.

See above or read the history.

[Choban]

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

$1:

This is a case study for how immigration is killing our country, not only do we bend over backwards not to offend these people by flaunting our beliefs and holidays, but now we must have our government apologize for something that happened in 1914?

Immigration made this country what it is today. If there was no immigration the main language of Canada would be cherokee, or inuit, or some other indiginous dialect.

Oh I quite agree and am not against immigration per say, what I am against is new Canadians coming here and expecting my multi generational family and friends to change to suit them.
Our forefathers came here and were thankful, they worked their asses off in most cases as indentured servants for little return other than a place to live that was better than where they came from.
Now we give immigrants loans and grants to start businesses, we let them ignore our helmet laws so they can ride motorcycles in a turban, we apologize to them for something that happened 100 years ago and we change Merry Christmas to Happy Holidays so as not to offend them.
We should take the same stance as Austrailia and say, come here, fine, practice your religion and live free, fine, but if you don't like how we are doing things then leave.

[hurley_108]

Regina Regina:

hurley_108 hurley_108:

You think the entrepreneurs who led the building of the railroad didn't do so for their own reasons as well? Everyone works for their own purposes. Few if any do what they do truly for the betterment of others more than themselves.

You make profit sound like a bad thing.

hurley_108 hurley_108:

The rich and powerful need the poor as much or more than the poor need the rich and powerful. The poor will find some corner of the world to eke out their existence whether the rich exist or not. But without a massive class of people with little but their own sweat equity the rich cannot be rich.

Respectfully that’s not true. It’s supply and demand which determined the salary. The “rich” may have to pay more but there is always someone to do the work for the right money. You need not a mass of people to do anything if you have time and money. In this case the CPR which in 1878 the massive project was behind schedule and near stalling completely regardless of the mass population of immigrants. Therefore no matter how much cheap mass labor was available the project would go no further without the “rich and powerful” input.

hurley_108 hurley_108:

So yea, if it wasn't the Irish and Chinese it might have been someone else, but in ANY event, without a large, exploitable, impoverished group of people, the railroad would not have been built.

See above or read the history.

All the money in the world would not have built the railroad if there weren't any people to swing the hammers. I'm not just talking about the railroad. Do you think Steve Jobs could possibly have built $5.7 billion worth of Apples, Macs, and iPods with his own two hands? No. He employs hundreds of software and hardware engineers to design products built in China by thousands of factory workers paid who knows how little, and he siphons off a little bit of the value of all of their work for himself. They make him rich. Sure he's had an idea or two, and they've been whoppers, but without masses of cheap labour to develop and mass produce his products he'd just be a hippy in Cupertino who made a cool new computer with his friend in his garage.

Profit isn't a bad thing, but it's ignorant to pretend that the rich earned all their profit by their ingenuity and drive and leadership alone, and that the countless, nameless labourers didn't make it all possible.

[kenmore]

Choban Choban:

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

$1:

This is a case study for how immigration is killing our country, not only do we bend over backwards not to offend these people by flaunting our beliefs and holidays, but now we must have our government apologize for something that happened in 1914?

Immigration made this country what it is today. If there was no immigration the main language of Canada would be cherokee, or inuit, or some other indiginous dialect.

Oh I quite agree and am not against immigration per say, what I am against is new Canadians coming here and expecting my multi generational family and friends to change to suit them.
Our forefathers came here and were thankful, they worked their asses off in most cases as indentured servants for little return other than a place to live that was better than where they came from.
Now we give immigrants loans and grants to start businesses, we let them ignore our helmet laws so they can ride motorcycles in a turban, we apologize to them for something that happened 100 years ago and we change Merry Christmas to Happy Holidays so as not to offend them.
We should take the same stance as Austrailia and say, come here, fine, practice your religion and live free, fine, but if you don't like how we are doing things then leave.

Awesome post... right on!

[Regina]

hurley_108 hurley_108:

All the money in the world would not have built the railroad if there weren't any people to swing the hammers. I'm not just talking about the railroad. Do you think Steve Jobs could possibly have built $5.7 billion worth of Apples, Macs, and iPods with his own two hands? No. He employs hundreds of software and hardware engineers to design products built in China by thousands of factory workers paid who knows how little, and he siphons off a little bit of the value of all of their work for himself. They make him rich. Sure he's had an idea or two, and they've been whoppers, but without masses of cheap labour to develop and mass produce his products he'd just be a hippy in Cupertino who made a cool new computer with his friend in his garage.

Profit isn't a bad thing, but it's ignorant to pretend that the rich earned all their profit by their ingenuity and drive and leadership alone, and that the countless, nameless labourers didn't make it all possible.

Actually you’re wrong and history proved it. Money can, and will build anything because there’s always someone who’ll work for more money. The history we’re discussing is relevant to 100+ years ago so using Apples and Macs is a poor analogy. In this case proof is in the actual history and not speculation. A lack of money nearly ended the project and an endless supply of cheap labor could do nothing to change it. When there’s no infusion of money, there are no jobs plain and simple. Who would have paid this mass of unskilled labor if there’s no money? It wasn’t a slave labor camp so we’ll have to assume they got paid……..which they did.
It's actually a simple concept in which you work and you get paid. If you don't like what your getting paid or the job, you move on..............or back where you came from.

[Chumley]

Choban Choban:

We should take the same stance as Austrailia and say, come here, fine, practice your religion and live free, fine, but if you don't like how we are doing things then leave.

I wonder did the Indians say that when we showed up?

[herbie]

The Aussies don't say that anymore either. Well the Aussie red-necks do, but that's not gov't policy.
They're actually quite different, work there too long and immigration will come by and tell you it's time to decide to be a proper citizen or get on the boat and leave.

And Regina you should post your real name so nobody accidentally applies to work for you. Remember the old adage: "Employers get the union they deserve"

[hurley_108]

Regina Regina:

Actually you’re wrong and history proved it. Money can, and will build anything because there’s always someone who’ll work for more money. The history we’re discussing is relevant to 100+ years ago so using Apples and Macs is a poor analogy. In this case proof is in the actual history and not speculation. A lack of money nearly ended the project and an endless supply of cheap labor could do nothing to change it. When there’s no infusion of money, there are no jobs plain and simple. Who would have paid this mass of unskilled labor if there’s no money? It wasn’t a slave labor camp so we’ll have to assume they got paid……..which they did.
It's actually a simple concept in which you work and you get paid. If you don't like what your getting paid or the job, you move on..............or back where you came from.

Who cares about poor analogies? The railroad isn't even on topic, now is it? Having to pay someone more reduces the profitability of the venture, to the point where you might have to give up on it.

Been to Alberta recently? Even now there are still scattered cases of what was common a few months ago: Fast food joints closing part or all of their service during hours in which they used to operate because they can't find anyone to work for the money they can afford to pay them.

You just don't want to face up to the fact that our lavish North American lifestyle is built upon historical and present exploitation of cheap labour.