[DrCaleb]

PluggyRug PluggyRug:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

PluggyRug PluggyRug:

All that graph shows is the sea temp has risen 0.7C over 130 years. No cataclysmic event here.

The last time the sea temperatures rose that fast, sea levels rose 2m and there was a mass extinction because the phytoplankton couldn't adapt to the new conditions. Everything that ate the phytoplankton died, as well as everything that ate them.

Nothing to see here. Move along, move along.

No there is not, many other factors probably played a role.

Probably did. Like atmospheric CO2 concentrations. Doesn't mean it can't happen again, nor does it mean it isn't happening again.

Just that the last time temperatures rose this fast, there was an extinction event. Nothing cataclysmic about that, is there?

[Zipperfish]

Interesting--NOAA showing that the Pacific Decadal Osciallation may have switched to the positive phase. That will release a lot of heat.

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/teleconnections/pdo/

[BartSimpson]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Interesting--NOAA showing that the Pacific Decadal Osciallation may have switched to the positive phase. That will release a lot of heat.

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/teleconnections/pdo/

And a lot of rain!

[Zipperfish]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Interesting--NOAA showing that the Pacific Decadal Osciallation may have switched to the positive phase. That will release a lot of heat.

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/teleconnections/pdo/

And a lot of rain!

I think you might be confusing ENSO with the PDO. Although we are also in an El Nino phase right now. So hopefully some rain for California.

[N_Fiddledog]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

The last time the sea temperatures rose that fast, sea levels rose 2m and there was a mass extinction because the phytoplankton couldn't adapt to the new conditions. Everything that ate the phytoplankton died, as well as everything that ate them.

That's what I call "butthole science", where you ignore the preponderance of contrary evidence and stress what might be true if you reach into the butthole of the vague and undiscovered.

Perhaps "conspiracy theory" science might be a better term.

You mean like when deniers pick dates that coincide with other warming events, so the current one doesn't look so bad?

How about the last 2000 years, instead of 40?

A few things.

First of all I deleted your silly graph. It's worthless. As I recall It's the one sometimes referred to as the spaghetti graph. Warmiacs got desperate for an explanation after their icon of the faithful (the hockey stick graph) was proved to be a hoax.

So they found a few proxy studies that appeared to say there was no Medieval warm period. That's the spaghetti graph. If you want to go back and look you'll see they still use Mann's deceptive trick of "Hide the Decline" where they tack the instrument measured temp record onto the last hundred years to show an upward spear of temperature their proxies were not going to show.

Another problem with the spaghetti graphs is they ignore the hundreds of studies showing varying evidence of the medieval warming period from varying locations in both hemispheres.

http://co2science.org/subject/m/subject_m.php

And this particular one is interesting.

$1:

What was learned
As the three researchers write in their paper's abstract, "water masses linked to North Pacific and Antarctic intermediate waters were warmer by 2.1 ± 0.4°C and 1.5 ± 0.4°C, respectively, during the middle Holocene Thermal Maximum [HTM] than over the past century," and that "both water masses were ~0.9°C warmer during the Medieval Warm Period [MWP] than during the Little Ice Age and ~0.65°C warmer than in recent decades."

What it means
In addition to providing further evidence for the greater warmth of the Medieval Warm Period compared to that of the Current Warm Period, Rosenthal et al. write that "the inferred similarity in temperature anomalies at both hemispheres is consistent with recent evidence from Antarctica (Orsi et al., 2012), thereby supporting the idea that the HTM, MWP and LIA were global events.

http://co2science.org/articles/V17/N6/C2.php

Here's the graph from Professor Idso of CO2science.



So as I recall Doc, your point was you believed the ocean warming of the 20th century was something never seen before some mass extinction event which you don't identify. I'm guessing you're talking about the Permian Triassic of 250 million years ago.

As NOAA's recent "adjusting" of ocean temperature measurements shows us scientists can't even agree on the record of twentieth century ocean temperatures. What's makes you so sure you know what happened 250 million years ago?

As far as what best evidence tells us though, there's a good argument based on peer review studies that says there were relatively recent warming periods warmer than current - Medeival, Roman, and Holocene optimum.

[Zipperfish]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

A few things.

First of all I deleted your silly graph. It's worthless. As I recall It's the one sometimes referred to as the spaghetti graph. Warmiacs got desperate for an explanation after their icon of the faithful (the hockey stick graph) was proved to be a hoax.

Falsehood No. 1: The hockey stick was never proven to be a hoax.

National Research Council Report on the hockey stick:

$1:

The North Report concluded "with a high level of confidence that global mean surface temperature was higher during the last few decades of the 20th century than during any comparable period during the preceding four centuries", justified by consistent evidence from a wide variety of geographically diverse proxies, but "Less confidence can be placed in large-scale surface temperature reconstructions for the period from 900 to 1600". It broadly agreed with the basic findings of the original MBH studies which had subsequently been supported by other reconstructions and proxy records, while emphasising uncertainties over earlier periods. The contested principal component analysis methodology had a small tendency to bias results so was not recommended, but it had little influence on the final reconstructions, and other methods produced similar results.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hockey_stick_controversy

$1:

So they found a few proxy studies that appeared to say there was no Medieval warm period.

Falsehood No. 2: No MWP.

Here's the various reconstructions by Mann, as well as several others. I can't see a single reconstruction that does not show the MWP.

[N_Fiddledog]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Here's the various reconstructions by Mann, as well as several others. I can't see a single reconstruction that does not show the MWP.

I'm assuming you and Doc both got your graphs from William O Donnel's website...pardon me Wikipedia.

They're slightly different. The version Doc found did not show the Medieval warm period. Yes, yours shows a version of it. However notice even there they still use "Hide the Decline", to try to make MWP invisible.

As to whether or not the Hockey Stick graph was a hoax, they pulled it from IPCC reports for a reason. Gore stopped emblazoning it on his shield so-to-speak for a reason. Books have been written debunking it till it screams. There are scientists who mock it. The group sometimes called "the Hockey Stick Team" that attempts to support it against all evidence of reality diminishes each year.

After Steyn gets through with Mikey in court he'll have to change his name to Pariah.

BTW did you hear about Steyn's new book?



But I'll give you this. You don't think the hockey stick was a hoax. I and many others do.

[Zipperfish]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

[

After Steyn gets through with Mikey in court he'll have to change his name to Pariah.

BTW did you hear about Steyn's new book?

I'm sure he will. Steyn is great polemiscist. I'm sure he will leave in tatters the reputation of anyone he doesn't like. But that will not change the properties of a carbon dioxide molecule.

I actually hope Steyn wins his case. Stupid thing to sue over. I'm a strong proponent of first amendment rights.

[Thanos]

Mark Steyn, a great award-winning scientist if there ever was one.

[Zipperfish]

Thanos Thanos:

Mark Steyn, a great award-winning scientist if there ever was one.

Yeah, he's like Rex Murphy. He thinks if he can find a word eloquent enough or a zinger witty enough, the whole thing will all go away.

[Thanos]

Murphy tries to engage though, and doesn't shout down or insult until the opposition throws up it's hands in frustration and walks away. Steyn's whole routine is mostly American conservative boilerplate that doesn't amount to more than "everyone is stupider than me" or "they're all fifth-columnist traitors". Very eloquent as far as style goes, and no where near as condescending as Levant's smirking Joe Sixpack with the type of linguistics you'd normally find only in a sixth-grade elementary school class, but in terms of substance it's no better than what Walter Winchell used to peddle to the mass of dullards. "All the scientists are lying to you!" is just an updated version of "the commies are coming to kill you!".

[DrCaleb]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Falsehood No. 1: The hockey stick was never proven to be a hoax.

It was also found to be true after several other methods found the same trend, using other methods, such as stalagmite data (with varying degrees of accuracy).

But, haters gunna hate.

[BartSimpson]

For me the "science" is rendered into BULLSHIT the very moment I find that the bastards have 'adjusted' the past temperature record down in order to show a spike in current temps.

If I ever meet one of the people who've done this I fully intend to bash their fucking teeth right down their fucking throat.

And we can do a graph of the decline in the number of teeth in their mouth and attribute the 'shocking' decline to increased atmospheric CO2.

[Zipperfish]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

For me the "science" is rendered into BULLSHIT the very moment I find that the bastards have 'adjusted' the past temperature record down in order to show a spike in current temps.

If I ever meet one of the people who've done this I fully intend to bash their fucking teeth right down their fucking throat.

And we can do a graph of the decline in the number of teeth in their mouth and attribute the 'shocking' decline to increased atmospheric CO2.

That's it, Bart. If the scientists tell you something you don't want to hear, then just hit them. That'll make it all go away.

[PluggyRug]

Well at least it would make those lying basterds with a political agenda go away.