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Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:42 am
OnTheIce OnTheIce: Yes, I am OK with the current funding. Here's why.
First, naturally it costs more to school children in major urban areas. Everything costs more with high paid teachers, property, etc, etc.
What a crock of shit. You think its more expensive to run a school in the city where the population in dense and you can pack up to 5000 kids in one school? Why do you think most small town schools have been closed and kids are bussed to the nearest larger center in most rural areas of Canada? And teachers in most provinces are on a grid, you don't get paid extra to work in the city - you will get paid extra to work in a remote community. And do you think its cheaper to build a school 200km from the city or in the city? Give your head a shake.
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OnTheIce 
CKA Uber
Posts: 10666
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:56 am
Macguyver Macguyver: OnTheIce OnTheIce: Yes, I am OK with the current funding. Here's why.
First, naturally it costs more to school children in major urban areas. Everything costs more with high paid teachers, property, etc, etc.
What a crock of shit. You think its more expensive to run a school in the city where the population in dense and you can pack up to 5000 kids in one school? Why do you think most small town schools have been closed and kids are bussed to the nearest larger center in most rural areas of Canada? And teachers in most provinces are on a grid, you don't get paid extra to work in the city - you will get paid extra to work in a remote community. And do you think its cheaper to build a school 200km from the city or in the city? Give your head a shake. Let's try to stay on topic. We're talking Native schools on a reserve compared to off-reserve public schools....not remote public schools. For sure it does cost more to run an urban school. Higher wages for teachers is just one of the points you refuse to acknowledge. It also costs more because in the public system, we actually have structure, a Board and certain standards that teachers and students need to abide by. Is it cheaper to build a school 200km away from a City? For anyone with any real estate experience, the answer is YES! Cheaper to build, cheaper to maintain, etc. I do like the fact that you completely dodged the lack of structure point that I noted.
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Posts: 5233
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:45 am
OnTheIce OnTheIce: Let's try to stay on topic. We're talking Native schools on a reserve compared to off-reserve public schools....not remote public schools What's the difference? OnTheIce OnTheIce: For sure it does cost more to run an urban school. Higher wages for teachers is just one of the points you refuse to acknowledge. It also costs more because in the public system, we actually have structure, a Board and certain standards that teachers and students need to abide by. You may be right about the board costing a bit, but teachers get more pay, not less, in remote areas. Particularily remote northern areas. There are also tax credits for people in northern areas which is an additional cost to the gov't for staffing these places. OnTheIce OnTheIce: Is it cheaper to build a school 200km away from a City? For anyone with any real estate experience, the answer is YES! Cheaper to build, cheaper to maintain, etc. I'm guessing you don't have much construction experience. When you get further from the city you pay more for materials, because they have to be shipped further. And you pay more for labour because guys ghave to be put up in hotels, fed, and generally they'll want more pay to make up for being away from their homes and families.
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andyt
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Posts: 33492
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:55 am
First Nations children do as poorly in off-reserve schools, ie provincially funded, as they do in on. Also, AFAIK, secondary schools are mostly off reserve, ie provincially funded, since reserves are too small to have their own. It's not just about the funding of schools. It's also about the poverty of First Nations, but also about them not wanting to integrate with the "white man." The "white man's" way is what produces all those material goodies, not the traditional native way. If they want those goodies, they've got to join the white man. I'm for generous social programs that help out people of all races to not be stuck in abject poverty, including educational support and enrichment. But the people have to do their bit too, and join the larger society and take on it's way of doing things. Otherwise they'll always be asking for more "rent" because we "stole their land." and living on a form of welfare, whether marginal or generous.
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peck420
Forum Super Elite
Posts: 2577
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:15 am
Unsound Unsound: I'm guessing you don't have much construction experience. When you get further from the city you pay more for materials, because they have to be shipped further. And you pay more for labour because guys ghave to be put up in hotels, fed, and generally they'll want more pay to make up for being away from their homes and families. Not necessarily. It really depends on a lot more factors than just proximity. We did a school in Ponoka that cost far less than an very similar school in Edmonton. Transportation was slightly cheaper (most materials come from Calgary or further south), labour was more expensive, and land was significantly cheaper. However, if you had gone the same distance (100km) north of Edmonton as opposed to south, it would have cost substantially more.
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OnTheIce 
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Posts: 10666
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:52 pm
Unsound Unsound: What's the difference? Public schools are backed and supported by a school board. Native, on-reserve schools have no school board to maintain standards, etc. Unsound Unsound: You may be right about the board costing a bit, but teachers get more pay, not less, in remote areas. Particularily remote northern areas. There are also tax credits for people in northern areas which is an additional cost to the gov't for staffing these places. For public schools, maybe. For Native schools, teachers aren't paid on par with their public, union backed counterparts. Unsound Unsound: I'm guessing you don't have much construction experience. When you get further from the city you pay more for materials, because they have to be shipped further. And you pay more for labour because guys ghave to be put up in hotels, fed, and generally they'll want more pay to make up for being away from their homes and families. Nope, just my father owns a construction company in Toronto. Sure, you do pay a little more for material and lodging but the difference in property cost far outweighs those expenses. Remember, not all schools on reserves are hundreds of kilometres away from everything, some are smack in the middle of multiple urban areas.
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Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:45 pm
OnTheIce OnTheIce: For public schools, maybe. For Native schools, teachers aren't paid on par with their public, union backed counterparts.
And you know that for sure? I give you a chance to verify your facts (guesses).
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OnTheIce 
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Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:19 pm
Macguyver Macguyver: OnTheIce OnTheIce: For public schools, maybe. For Native schools, teachers aren't paid on par with their public, union backed counterparts.
And you know that for sure? I give you a chance to verify your facts (guesses). Anything to prove I'm wrong? Didn't think so. For someone like you with extensive experience on a reserve, surely you're well versed on the education system. Do some of your own homework. Look for a report from the Chiefs of Ontario about Aboriginal Education and note the differences in teacher salaries from band-operated schools to their Provincial public counterparts.
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Posts: 33691
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:59 pm
Macguyver Macguyver: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/first-nations-school-cant-afford-to-pay-its-teachers/article2326448/ That is called a slam dunk. Now go crawl under the porch with the rest of the dogs. ![With stupid [stupid]](./images/smilies/stupid.gif) So you actually agree with OTI that reserve teachers aren't paid the same. Now stop flailing with the insults and step away for a while. I believe the porch door is open.
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peck420
Forum Super Elite
Posts: 2577
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:08 pm
Do FN schools fall under Provincial School Boards or Federal?
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Posts: 33691
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:13 pm
peck420 peck420: Do FN schools fall under Provincial School Boards or Federal? Not Provincial School Boards, paid by the Feds.
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peck420
Forum Super Elite
Posts: 2577
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:20 pm
Then they should do what the Provincial School Boards do...oh forget it, never going to happen.
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Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:25 pm
martin14 martin14: Macguyver Macguyver: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/first-nations-school-cant-afford-to-pay-its-teachers/article2326448/ That is called a slam dunk. Now go crawl under the porch with the rest of the dogs. ![With stupid [stupid]](./images/smilies/stupid.gif) So you actually agree with OTI that reserve teachers aren't paid the same. Now stop flailing with the insults and step away for a while. I believe the porch door is open. Apparently on Waterhen they are.
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OnTheIce 
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Posts: 10666
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:54 pm
Macguyver Macguyver: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/first-nations-school-cant-afford-to-pay-its-teachers/article2326448/ That is called a slam dunk. Now go crawl under the porch with the rest of the dogs. ![With stupid [stupid]](./images/smilies/stupid.gif) You're so thick you actually think you proved me wrong when in fact, you proved my point. $1: For Ms. Lafreniere, who earns $73,000 a year, that means as much as $4,000-a-year less in wages. It’s not the money that worries her – it’s the fact that she won’t know until April whether Waterhen Lake can afford to keep her on the payroll.
“If I was just working for the money I’d be gone,” she said. “Teaching on a first nation, you don’t have security, you don’t have tenure. … It makes me as a first-nations person feel like a second-class citizen.”
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