[andyt]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Everyone, save andy-andy, surely got that my post was, in large measure, tongue-in-cheek. But there comes a point when the piper needs paid.

Looks like Dr Caleb is running with your idea.

I had no way of knowing your post was tongue in cheek. Glad to hear it.

[2Cdo]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Everyone, save andy-andy, surely got that my post was, in large measure, tongue-in-cheek. But there comes a point when the piper needs paid.

I knew it had to be a put-on, or that you had finally snapped and went ape-shit crazy!

[Zipperfish]

I shoulda known. Duh!

[DrCaleb]

andyt andyt:

Lemmy Lemmy:

Everyone, save andy-andy, surely got that my post was, in large measure, tongue-in-cheek. But there comes a point when the piper needs paid.

Looks like Dr Caleb is running with your idea.

I had no way of knowing your post was tongue in cheek. Glad to hear it.

Lemmy is usually tongue-in-cheek. I usually am too. But I did think it's an unimaginable idea that needed some more thought into it. It all depends on how far down the rabbit hole people are willing to go with a thought experiment.

[andyt]

Mindfucking - no fair.

[EyeBrock]

Your mind can be a bit slutty at times andy.

[Lemmy]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

It all depends on how far down the rabbit hole people are willing to go with a thought experiment.

All the way to the bottom of the cruise missile crater in suburban Riyadh.

[BartSimpson]

Thanos Thanos:

And during the TSA pat-down uproar of the last few weeks, people have too quickly forgotten that the thing was caused by proven MUSLIM terrorist attacks/attempted attacks including Sept 11, the shoe-bomber, the liquid explosives plot that resulted in all outside fluids being banned from planes, the car bomb attack on the Glasgow airport, and last year's underwear bomber.

It's easy to get cynical about the government but these attacks and what-not keep happening. And so enhanced security for ailines and airports, even the most annoying and intrusive kind, is here to stay for the forseeable future. For all the faults in our reactions to them the fact remains that a large part of the MUSLIM terrorist threat is a grim reality.

Fixed that for you.

We're not being attacked by generic terrorists.

[andyt]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Thanos Thanos:

And during the TSA pat-down uproar of the last few weeks, people have too quickly forgotten that the thing was caused by proven MUSLIM terrorist attacks/attempted attacks including Sept 11, the shoe-bomber, the liquid explosives plot that resulted in all outside fluids being banned from planes, the car bomb attack on the Glasgow airport, and last year's underwear bomber.

It's easy to get cynical about the government but these attacks and what-not keep happening. And so enhanced security for ailines and airports, even the most annoying and intrusive kind, is here to stay for the forseeable future. For all the faults in our reactions to them the fact remains that a large part of the MUSLIM terrorist threat is a grim reality.

Fixed that for you.

We're not being attacked by generic terrorists.

As if he didn't know that. You should have left it alone. Terrorism is becoming identified as a Muslim thing. When you hear terrorist, who do you think of? So you would have your wish and we would slowly come to see Islam and terrorism as the same thing.

[DrCaleb]

Lemmy Lemmy:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

It all depends on how far down the rabbit hole people are willing to go with a thought experiment.

All the way to the bottom of the cruise missile crater in suburban Riyadh.

You say that like it's a bad thing. I was thinking more of a Predator present during the Haj at Mecca myself.

[BartSimpson]

andyt andyt:

So you would have your wish and we would slowly come to see Islam and terrorism as the same thing.

At one time it was unfashionable to point out that most terrorism was being committed by Communists (of various stripes) and I remember how all the problems with the various commie terror groups magically went away with the end of the European Communist states.

We successfully ended the threat of Communist terrorism by putting an end to Communism.

There's a lesson there.

[Thanos]

Let's try to avoid all the grotesque generalizations if possible. It's not just completely unfair, it's also completely retarded. If we were once able to say that the Russian and Chinese people were not our enemies but that Communism certainly was then we should be adult enough to say that Islamofascist terrorism is our enemy but all Muslims everywhere certainly aren't.

This is one of the few things that actually makes me miss George W. Bush. He repeated it ad infinitum because it was, and is, very necessary to keep saying it. As soon as he was gone the FUXers, neo-cons, and Palinites ditched it as fast as they could just to appeal to the 'eternal war of civilizations' assholes. I refuse to accept a Forever War, no matter which moral degenerates keep endlessly peddling it.

[BartSimpson]

My comparison is more apples and apples.

It is true that most people in Communist countries were not our enemies. Likewise I believe that most people in many Islamic countries are not our enemies. (Read: most people in some Islamic countries ARE our enemies)

But where the solution to Communist aggression was to end Communism, the lasting solution to Islamic aggression is to end Islam as a philosophy.

Of course, such a thing will not happen in the current climate. But I'm of the school of analytical thought that we're a few nuked cities away from such a solution. If the growing fundamentalist movement in Islam does not use nukes then they stand a pretty good chance at an eventual victory (of sorts) over the West. But if they use nukes, which is considered a near certainty, then what will happen will be common people calling for the elimination of the threat at any price.

It'd be better if we looked at a strategy for undermining Islam the same way we collapsed Communism. Avoiding the topic will be costly while if we look to past successes it's possible we could find a way to put an end to this madness without bloodshed.

[Thanos]

The Wikileaks incident clearly showed that the Muslims are continually at odds with each other. This alone completely deflates any possibility of a resurrected imperial caliphate ever coming into existence again. It also rips away any justification the 'eternal war between cultures' argument might have ever wrongly had attached to it. Consequently the best course of action remains vigilant police and civilian/military intelligence operations against individual terrorists and groups, and sanctions/containment of bad regimes like Iran.

Aside from leaving the Muslims completely alone, up to and including never engaging in any petroleum-based commerce with them ever again, what is the solution? Can there even ever be a solution at all? Yes, there will always be certain Muslims that hate us and will attack us, even if we were able or desirous to cut off ever conceivable form of contact we have with them. And no, this does not justify our doing more ham-fisted, useless, and irrelevant blundering around with our entire armies in their part of the world. The Western world is never ever going to be so dominated by the Christian churchs that such war can be made into a culture-spanning religious crusade. And I'd genuinely like to see what would happen politically in the United States to whatever politician who said that they had to bring back the military draft and probably quadruple the national debt in order to create the resources that would be required to supply the boots on the ground necessary to first overwhelmingly dominate and then comprehensively transform the background culture of the entire Muslim world.

Sometimes, in the end, one has to accept the sad reality that not ever problem or crisis even has a solution for it (e.g. Israeli Jews vs Palestinian Arabs). Any direct hot war against Communism would have resulted in a literal apocalyptic ending of the entire world. Continued conflict with the Muslim world could someday end up with the same outcome, especially if other nations come to believe that the quasi-imperial recklessness of the anti-Muslim crusaders is more of a threat to them than the Muslims are and end up joining in against 'our' side; LOL, try screaming something as existentially ridiculous as 'war on terror! war on terror!' at the Russians or Chinese as a reason to start poking around in their backyards and see what kind of reaction you get from them. Perhaps the best thing to do for a while would be to quit listening at all to those, especially the ones among 'us', who are cheerleading so energetically for Armaggedon to happen sooner rather than later. Or, hopefully, never.

[kenmore]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33Fhv0u0 ... 6&index=73

Love this