[sandorski]

Local Floods happen everywhere, so everywhere(not literally though) has a local Flood Myth/Legend in it's past. Not Proof of a Global Flood, just Proof that Floods are a common calamity.

[poquas]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

poquas poquas:

The bible is NOT an historical document. The flood(s) may well have occurred that predate the writing of the bible, however the Noah story is most definitely a fairy tale to push the God myth.

Says the "medical professional" who thinks that belief in God constitutes a mental disorder.

When did I ever say such a thing? I've stated that for certain people (that I’ve had firsthand experience with in my and through cases of my peers) religion has caused more damage than good. I'm assuming that from your childish attack that you are one of them.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

The Bible is an historical document.....

You are kidding right? Noah was a real person who gathered two of every plant and animal on earth?

[andyt]

poquas poquas:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

The Bible is an historical document.....

You are kidding right? Noah was a real person who gathered two of every plant and animal on earth?

I'll go with Public Animal on this one - the bible is as historical as other ancient documents. It has fact mixed with imagination mixed with wishful thinking, as do, likely all the other ancient histories, or in fact even more modern ones. The more modern ones may be more accurate as to places and dates, but likely still interpret an event from a particular pov.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

sandorski sandorski:

Local Floods happen everywhere, so everywhere(not literally though) has a local Flood Myth/Legend in it's past. Not Proof of a Global Flood, just Proof that Floods are a common calamity.

See, once again, things get taken out of context, not just by non-believers but by believers as well. Today, people take it that it was a global flood, which even I seriously doubt. However, it's quite possible, and there is some scientific evidence to support the claim, that a large majority of the KNOWN world could have been flooded at the time.
And andyt, thanks. Yer right, I'm NOT one of those "every single word in the Bible is literally true" kinda people. I'm just old enough, educated enough, and open-eyed enough to know that translations can play hell with contexts and meanings. I'm also aware that the ancient languages teneded to have a fair amount of symbolism weaved(woven?) into them. The ancient Egyptian language is a great example of that.

Then the problem gets compounded, on both sides, when we add miracles to the mix.
Are miracles mere symbolism? Are they "propaganda"? An example I like to point to is the Battle of Jericho, where at the appointed time, Joshua's troops blew their trumpets and the walls of Jericho crumbled. There are non-Biblical sources that verify the fact that Jericho fell. Then scientists determined that an earthquake had hit the region around the time of Joshua. This makes non-believers say, "See? There's a perfectly logical reason why the walls came down." Completely ignoring the fact that Joshua would have had to have had some advance notice of said earthquake. We can't even predict today, what month one is going to happen, never mind knowing the exact hour of one. But, then again, to be fair, I'd have to add my own qualifyer from a previous post and ask, was that just a case of the victors writing the history?
I'm not trying to convert anyone here, just that too many people really don't understand the Bible because they are trying to read it in a 20th/21st century head space. The fundies don't help diffuse any confusion either. Then again, they really don't help ANY religion.
However, if one can get past the religious references in the Bible, it IS just as valid an historical document as any other written in that time. Glad to see some people aren't afraid to admit it, even if they don't believe the religious aspect of it.

[Lemmy]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

The Bible is an historical document

So is a prehistoric, shit-encrusted piece of ass-wipe. The question is whether it is a useful piece of history or a misleading one. The ass-wipe, for instance, has archaelogical value. It tells us that some of our ancient predecessors wiped their asses. The bible, likewise, has historical value. It tells us that our ancient predecessors wrote fiction.

[sandorski]

Certain parts of the Bible are certainly Historic. The Old Testament is like a "Best of" of Ancient Israeli Literature and Historic records. The Literature ranges from Art to Folklore. The Historic ranges from Events to Family Trees to the Law. People, Religious people mostly, tend to confuse the differences.

Joshua blew Trumpets and the Walls fell? BS. The Walls may have fallen, but the Trumpets were not the cause. Miracles do not happen, end of discussion.

[xerxes]

Not to mention the impossibility of gathering two of every animal on earth onto a ferry. A ferry that would include all 100,000+ species of beetle, ants, and similar species. Not to mention keeping all animals alive and fed for 40 days and nights.

[Lemmy]

[fifeboy]

xerxes xerxes:

Not to mention the impossibility of gathering two of every animal on earth onto a ferry. A ferry that would include all 100,000+ species of beetle, ants, and similar species. Not to mention keeping all animals alive and fed for 40 days and nights.

J.B.S. Haldane, the Brit population biologist, when asked by some theologian about what one could infer about the Mind of the Creator from the works of His Creation replied that God had "An inordinate fondness for beetles."

[herbie]

Noah's ark round?
Of course it was. Was 'round long before I ever was.

[llama66]

I was always led to believe that Noah's story was based off of "Gligamesh's Epic" written sometime around 2000BCE. But it is true that most cultures have a flood legend.

[xerxes]

fifeboy fifeboy:

xerxes xerxes:

Not to mention the impossibility of gathering two of every animal on earth onto a ferry. A ferry that would include all 100,000+ species of beetle, ants, and similar species. Not to mention keeping all animals alive and fed for 40 days and nights.

J.B.S. Haldane, the Brit population biologist, when asked by some theologian about what one could infer about the Mind of the Creator from the works of His Creation replied that God had "An inordinate fondness for beetles."

I was looking for that quote and I couldn't quite remember it, thank you.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

sandorski sandorski:

Certain parts of the Bible are certainly Historic. The Old Testament is like a "Best of" of Ancient Israeli Literature and Historic records. The Literature ranges from Art to Folklore. The Historic ranges from Events to Family Trees to the Law. People, Religious people mostly, tend to confuse the differences.

Joshua blew Trumpets and the Walls fell? BS. The Walls may have fallen, but the Trumpets were not the cause. Miracles do not happen, end of discussion.

Maybe you should go back and re-read that part before you make comments that show off your incredibly limited comprehension skills.

[poquas]

Why re-read it? The plot stinks, it's incredibly long and drawn out, and everyone knows how it ends. The devil did it.

[andyt]

xerxes xerxes:

Not to mention the impossibility of gathering two of every animal on earth onto a ferry. A ferry that would include all 100,000+ species of beetle, ants, and similar species. Not to mention keeping all animals alive and fed for 40 days and nights.

This is actually a good argument to bring up with the creationists.

There are estimated to be 1,260,000 species of animals on the planet. Many live in the ocean, but you'd probably still need to take about 1,000,000, since insects alone are 900,000. You would also have to take seeds or other of all terrestrial plants - that's another 300,000 or so. Plus of course all the species we know have become extinct.

I guess a creationist would just say that God came down after the flood and added some more species, in fact, as new species are discovered, he's doing it on a continual basis.