[ridenrain]

yeah. It is Sen. Colin Kenny. Look at that. A mistake that I own up to, because I'm big enough to do that. I learned as a kid that if you make a mistake, fix it, don't cover it with bullshit.
Why can't you? All you're doing here is floundering.


You assumed that this was a Harper buy with:

$1:

Sounds like the deal was finalized by your buddies, not the Libs...

You had no clue who bought them. Then you recover poorly with:

$1:

The deal for the C-17s was done in under a year...yaditty, yaddity, distraction, distraction, die Boeing Die!!!,yadditty...

As I stated, the manufactures rep. recomended changes and that looked like the best way to go. There's no date details on that so the deal could have been either party but it dosen't matter because that looked like the correct path.

LIBERAL Sen. Colin Kenny ( a Teddy award winner) is obviously aware of these problems now but there's no indication that he was aware of them back in 2003 when the Liberals bought them. If he was, I wonder why he didn't tell anyone, or why someone didn't listen..


I was going to reference to you're comment:

$1:

BTW, the French and Dutch are quite content using the exact same drone in Afghanistan, so methinks it's not so much the drone that's the problem.

Couple of problems with this:
Need I also mention that in 2003, the French and the Danes were not in the same shit we Canadians were. We also boutht these almost new UASs from the Danes so maybe they weren't suitable after all? While I agree that the learning curve for new operators is a problem, you're comment "methinks it's not so much the drone that's the problem" begs me to ask for clarification.



Let's just take this moment and make things clear. Agree or disagree:

UAV's do not have the same lifespan that normal aircraft do. They crash or they get shot down, doing their job. By all indication, we are either running out of these and we need new ones.

Why is the left objecting to Canbada buying new ones?

[bootlegga]

ridenrain ridenrain:

You assumed that this was a Harper buy with:

Sounds like the deal was finalized by your buddies, not the Libs...
You had no clue who bought them. Then you recover poorly with:

The deal for the C-17s was done in under a year...yaditty, yaddity, distraction, distraction, die Boeing Die!!!,yadditty...

I think a visit to the optomerist is in order. Your glasses are skewing what you see. My comment was that Harper finalized the deal, I never said he started it.

Obviously, with the first batch of drones being purchased in 2003 (while Harper was still busy bitching and moaning we weren't going to join the fun in Iraq as leader of the Opposition), he would have had nothing to do with it.

ridenrain ridenrain:

I was going to reference to you're comment:

$1:

BTW, the French and Dutch are quite content using the exact same drone in Afghanistan, so methinks it's not so much the drone that's the problem.

Couple of problems with this:
Need I also mention that in 2003, the French and the Danes were not in the same shit we Canadians were. We also boutht these almost new UASs from the Danes so maybe they weren't suitable after all? While I agree that the learning curve for new operators is a problem, you're comment "methinks it's not so much the drone that's the problem" begs me to ask for clarification.

Did you even read the article? We didn't buy this batch in 2003. We bought them in August 2006, so that the argument that the Dutch weren't in the 'shit' is totally erroneous.

I don't like to denigrate people in uniform, but my guess is that, prior to buying the Sperwers, the CF lacked operational experience with UAVs. Here what someone else said;

$1:

Jim Ferguson, a senior fellow at Calgary's Canadian Defence and Foreign Affairs Institute, says Canada acted too fast in adopting the UAVs.

The success of the used drones, he said, will depend on terrain, altitude, the nature of missions, and well-trained personnel.

"We rushed into it initially, and there wasn't enough experience to handle them. But the technology is already more advanced now," Ferguson said. "The range of their role will certainly affect how useful they are."

http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/ ... drones.htm

ridenrain ridenrain:

Let's just take this moment and make things clear. Agree or disagree:

UAV's do not have the same lifespan that normal aircraft do. They crash or they get shot down, doing their job. By all indication, we are either running out of these and we need new ones.

Why is the left objecting to Canbada buying new ones?

Yes, drones wear out and do eventually need replacing. Just like our AORs, fighters, DDHs, and the rest of the things the Conservatives say they'll pay for and then turn around a year later and say is too expensive.

First off, the 'left' isn't objecting to anything. Same goes for "Canbada buying new ones".

What people are objecting to is the mismanagement of funds by the Conservatives in the defence portfolio. They cancelled a major refit of the Auroras after we'd already spent $400 million. Then, after they finalize a deal to buy 10 drones for $250 million, they decide 18 months later to spend $100 million more on other drones. That alone sounds like it would have been enough to pay the difference on the JSS.

A big hypocrisy I see with the new drones is that we won't even own them, they will be leased, yet just last year, all the C-17 supporters here were saying, it's not right for Canada to rent equipment, we should own it, we're a rich nation blah blah blah. Yet, now, a year later, it's flip flop time.

Rented helos - sure, why not!
Rented tanks - sure why not!
Rented UAVs - sure why not!

Try and find a position and actually defend it instead of becoming Mr. Dithers part deux...

[ridenrain]

You're just playing politics with this, just like you did with the C17s.
What we have isn't good enough, if it is, it's too expensive..
If we want to replace it, we wate all the money we spent on the last ones..
We didn't source it right and it's too expensive..
wha.. whaa. whaaa.
Bitching about the ammount of money we spent in the process of getting to this point is useless and is fodder for political losers like dawn Black and Dosanjh. Learning curves are expensive and the UAV's potential to save lives is much more important.

You missed this from you're own proof:

$1:

Canada has a sorry history when it comes to buying used military equipment in Europe. The federal government bought leaky used British submarines, one of which caught fire while at sea.

Liberal leftovers.


While I'd like to see them use both, we simply don't have the manpower. We can't flog them to the Afghans because they'd proabaly crash them learning how to use them. A better plan would be moving them back to Canada for initial training but even that might not be efficient.

[uwish]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Hand-me-downs?

Like the bulk of the equipment, what little there is, that Harper bought or leased?

Face it. Your hero Harper has done so much less in office then Martin despite having more money and apparently the political support to do so.

yeah he hasn't raped or pillaged..

your right no scandals from Harper. Thanks for reminding me.

crooked face was just that and dithers was really a fugy women.

[Can2]

Good thing this is in the Current Events forum... not to current and ideal bait for barking up party lines.
A few more drones... so what, they brake we fix them...we need them...cheap Yes So?
We are talking drones if a few fall out of the sky big deal... Replace a few engines tweak a few add-on packages. It is what the military does in any operating theater. Have any of you been out on military exercises?
Give me drones lots of them, this kind, that kind, any kind; but give me something to look beyond line of site. thanks to WHOEVER put the deal together.

[bootlegga]

ridenrain ridenrain:

You're just playing politics with this, just like you did with the C17s.

Pot meet kettle...

You twist everything and anything into an attack on the Liberals.

[ridenrain]

Do you want to track down that 60mm mortar thread so you can wallow in another of you're political knee-jerk mistakes?

[bootlegga]

ridenrain ridenrain:

Do you want to track down that 60mm mortar thread so you can wallow in another of you're political knee-jerk mistakes?

???????

I have no idea what you're talking about.

[ridenrain]

bootlegga bootlegga:

ridenrain ridenrain:

Do you want to track down that 60mm mortar thread so you can wallow in another of you're political knee-jerk mistakes?

???????

I have no idea what you're talking about.

I rest my case..

[bootlegga]

You rest your case by not proving anything...yep, you sound just like a conservative...

Have another one...

[meaden24]

a modern military should not lease anything, everything we use should be completely under ownership by the military, I'm tired of these dumb ideas of "leasing" kit from other places.