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CKA Uber
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:46 am
 


Won't matter much as these guys will be gone in October anyways.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:48 am
 


OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Governments raid reserve funds all the time.

While it might make political sense, it's a terrible economic move.


fixed


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:52 am
 


Zipperfish Zipperfish:
Won't matter much as these guys will be gone in October anyways.


:lol:

Did the Liberals find a new leader?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:52 am
 


Zipperfish Zipperfish:
Won't matter much as these guys will be gone in October anyways.


Let's hope so. But, on cross country checkup, the case was made that the Libs are closer to the Conservatives than the NDP, and that with a minority govt, a Con Lib coalition is possible. Maybe not in name, but if the Cons form a minority govt, the Libs would prob them up for at least two years, trying to get JT ready for prime time.

Also that the Libs and Dips wouldn't form a coalition - too many differences between them, too much bad blood.

Personally I think it's time for an NDP govt, to really shake up the political system, instead of the back and forth between the Cons and Libs.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:56 am
 


OnTheIce OnTheIce:
Zipperfish Zipperfish:
Won't matter much as these guys will be gone in October anyways.


:lol:

Did the Liberals find a new leader?


Doesn't matter who the leader is. Politicians and parties get stale. The Conservatives are looking at a minority government as a best case scenario, after which their ability to inflict damage will be severely compromised. Particuarly true since most of the budget is back-loaded to well after the election.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:00 am
 


Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Doesn't matter who the leader is. Politicians and parties get stale. The Conservatives are looking at a minority government as a best case scenario, after which their ability to inflict damage will be severely compromised. Particuarly true since most of the budget is back-loaded to well after the election.


True, parties get stale. However, you need a leader...and JT isn't the guy.

When JT gets into a campaign or debate, he'll have two feet firmly planted in his mouth especially against a vet like Harper. Harper and the CPC will continue to make him look like a rookie and a light-weight.

The CPC ad-machine will ramp up and continue the excellent work they've already done to-date defining a leader. LT dropped 7% points in mere months.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:03 am
 


andyt andyt:
Personally I think it's time for an NDP govt, to really shake up the political system, instead of the back and forth between the Cons and Libs.


yeah--it looked like the NDP were going to get in in BC, according to all the polls. But there seems to have been some kind of last minute sphincter-clench and people went BCLiberal instead. I would have liked to see the NDP get in.

federally, I'm a Liberal though. The Liberal candidate, in my opinion, is outstanding.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:06 am
 


OnTheIce OnTheIce:
True, parties get stale. However, you need a leader...and JT isn't the guy.

When JT gets into a campaign or debate, he'll have two feet firmly planted in his mouth especially against a vet like Harper. Harper and the CPC will continue to make him look like a rookie and a light-weight.

The CPC ad-machine will ramp up and continue the excellent work they've already done to-date defining a leader. LT dropped 7% points in mere months.


The problem with the attack ads is that they actually work against the Harper Conservatvies now. They've groomed themselves this image of being petty and vindictive, and the attack ads just feed that negative image as much as they pass on any to Trudeau.

Any damage Trudeau takes will be due to his own mistakes, if you ask me.

Trudeau isn't the guy? Neither was Ignatieff, or Dion, or Rae. If you're a Conservative, obviously that's going to be your opinion.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:34 am
 


Zipperfish Zipperfish:
Trudeau isn't the guy? Neither was Ignatieff, or Dion, or Rae. If you're a Conservative, obviously that's going to be your opinion.


I was a Liberal supporter up until Paul Martin stepped down as leader. All the leaders since have been crackers one way or another. When the Liberals get a good leader again, I'll once again vote red.

In the meantime, my best hope is for a Conservative minority. Enough to prevent the Conservatives from doing anymore real damage; but, also hopefully enough to oust Justin Trudeau as Liberal leader before the next election.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:14 am
 


Zipperfish Zipperfish:

The problem with the attack ads is that they actually work against the Harper Conservatvies now. They've groomed themselves this image of being petty and vindictive, and the attack ads just feed that negative image as much as they pass on any to Trudeau.


That may be what you feel, being a Liberal supporter, but that's not the reality. Attack ads from all sides are quite effective.

Over the last few months, JT has dropped to 3rd (or last) for popularity of the party leaders. That's bad. That drop coincides with the CPC campaign to paint a picture of JT.

Many people from the left and right are dissapointed with the lack of substance from JT and his weak showings on key issues like the economy.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:26 pm
 


OnTheIce OnTheIce:
That may be what you feel, being a Liberal supporter, but that's not the reality. Attack ads from all sides are quite effective.


Usually, but not always. They didn't work for McCain. The orthodox wisdom is that attack ads work and young people don't vote. Both of those backfired. The key is a grassroots organziation to get the young vote out. They are more motivated towards the Liberals/NDP/Green than the older demographic, but you need an effective grassroots campaign to get them vote, and that ain't easy.


$1:
Many people from the left and right are dissapointed with the lack of substance from JT and his weak showings on key issues like the economy.


And many people are disappointed with the Conservatvies and Harper as well.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:30 pm
 


Zipperfish Zipperfish:



And many people are disappointed with the Conservatvies and Harper as well.



yes they are me included......but not enough to vote for a party with an ineffective leader who's mandate will be governed by the old school backroom boys.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:18 pm
 


OnTheIce OnTheIce:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Yes, it's so much better than the "Conservatives" posting the largest deficit ever in Canadian history. They even stopped posting detailed breakdowns of ministry expenditures after that fiasco. :roll:

I didn't like the Liberals much, but at least Paul Martin posted surpluses that took effect that year.


I always love to hear people talk/write about the deficit like it had no purpose, no cause and no reason behind it.


Their reality is much more skewed than ours.

I watched CPAC for two and a half plus hours yesterday, including the budget speech, before I checked out the breakdowns on several news channels.

I thought it was a good budget. Could it have been better? Perhaps, but the bottom line is that this budget was written in black ink. A surplus is still a surplus. I was also happy to see increased funding for the Forces.

Could Justin have done better? I think not. Mulcair? It would have been a train wreck wrapped in a disaster.

Promises made were kept.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:00 pm
 


PluggyRug PluggyRug:
Zipperfish Zipperfish:



And many people are disappointed with the Conservatvies and Harper as well.



yes they are me included......but not enough to vote for a party with an ineffective leader who's mandate will be governed by the old school backroom boys.


Like I said--keep up the attack ads. I think they will work in the Liberals's favour.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:01 pm
 


OnTheIce OnTheIce:

How did they cheat?

Why not just raise all taxes to ensure we're in surplus?


Go back and read the first paragraph of the story.

I can't quote it right now because the Globe and Mail's website is down, but the article starts off by noting how the Conservatives had to raid the contingency fund and sell government assets in the form of GM shares.

In other words, they had to resort to money collected specifically for the unemployed, one-time sales, and money set aside for unexpected downturns in order to balance the books. Those are not regular sources of government revenue that we collect from taxes, tariffs, and so forth, and are not typically considered part of the budgeting process.

Aside from the issues I have with income splitting, I would also note that, yet again, no one ever seems to want to talk about exactly what kinds of government programs and services they are willing to give up in exchange for reduced taxes.

Are they willing to risk a greater risk of the food they eat being tainted?

Are they willing to risk greater water contamination, which will potentially damage Canada's environmental image?

Are they willing to take a greater risk of getting killed if something goes pear-shaped and their lives are in danger in an emergency?

Are they willing to accept that our veterans will have to wait longer to get the services they need when frontline staff are burned out and overworked?

Are they willing to wait longer to talk to people from the Canada Revenue Agency when they have questions about their tax returns or need information to run their businesses?

Aside from all that, what Harper and Oliver seem to have forgotten is how conservative political projects need tax dollars to function, too.

Where is the money going to come from for the fight against ISIS in the Middle East?

Where is the money going to come from for new military acquisitions?

Where is the money going to come from to accommodate the increased incarceration rate resulting from Harper's changes to the Criminal Code?

Where is the money going to come from to pay off all of the $130 billion-plus in extra debt Harper has accumulated?

Just for the record, I support all of these things that Harper is doing. When it comes to criminal justice, the military and helping to fight psychos like ISIS, I am very much on the right wing of things. However, my supporting Harper's actions here doesn't mean I am not concerned about how he expects to pay for all these things without putting us back in the red.

Let's not forget that, even with all his cuts, Harper still needed to raid special funds the same way he used to criticize the Liberals for, use one-time sources of revenue, and dip into emergency rainy-day funds. As Scott Clark and Peter DeVries helpfully point out...

$1:

Had the contingency reserve been kept to its usual $3 billion level, there would be a small deficit of $600 million. This deficit would have been $1.6 billion without the GM sales — even higher, had Oliver made no change in the forecasting methodology.



And as for the EI fund, here's Justin Ling quoting Oliver himself:

$1:

When VICE asked Oliver how he could justify raiding the EI fund, he said that Ottawa didn't need it to balance the budget. And, besides, Oliver said, their decision to pluck cash from the EI fund was nothing "compared to the Liberals."



All Oliver can offer is the tired old "but the Liberals did it too!" defence.

In other words, Harper would have failed yet again to meet his balanced budget commitments without cheating by draining revenue sources that either aren't always available or aren't supposed to be used for these purposes.


Last edited by JaredMilne on Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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