[Brenda]

llama66 llama66:

The Queen of Canada is my queen. I echo the sediment that if you wish not swear allegiance to the Queen, then maybe Canada is not the right place for you.

Really?
So Canada is not the right place for me because I am not going to swear allegiance to anything? I should leave because I am a legal resident but not a citizen?

That's some funny shit.
"PLEASE pay a shitload for a visa that gives you the legal right to stay in the country as long as you don't commit crimes and you renew your application every 5 years, that, btw, you have to pay for too, but hey, if you don't want to swear allegiance to the Queen that only has a ceremonial function, then fuck off"?

[desertdude]

You're mixing up being a Permanent resident with being or acquiring citizenship

Brenda Brenda:

So Canada is not the right place for me because I am not going to swear allegiance to anything? I should leave because I am a legal resident but not a citizen?

Well legal residents don't have to take the oath and thats one of the reasons they remain residents and not citizens until they do. A simple choice really, if you want to become a Citizen then one has to take the oath, which IMO is only right and asking very little in return for a lor ( i.e: offering you the privledge of becoming a citizen of Canada akin to my eyes atleast to adopting you as one of its sons and daughters, many countries arn't that nice ). If anybody has any sorts of moral qualms about it they are free not to continue living as PRs, as you have for whatever reasons you might have.

Brenda Brenda:

"PLEASE pay a shitload for a visa that gives you the legal right to stay in the country as long as you don't commit crimes and you renew your application every 5 years, that, btw, you have to pay for too, but hey, if you don't want to swear allegiance to the Queen that only has a ceremonial function, then fuck off"?

Paying visa and renewing visa fees has nothing to do with the subject at hand. A lot of countries charge for visas, its nothing new. You can take the oath and become a citizen if you choose to and if not then you will have to keep on paying the exhoribitant sum ( 50$ I think it is every 5 years ) to renew your PR card.

[Brenda]

You completely missed my point. According to Llama, I should leave if I am not willing to swear allegiance to a ceremonial queen. His statement sounds like Permanent Residency is not supposed to be permanent, but temporary.

So, YOU are mixing it up.

[Public_Domain]

[llama66]

So then we should change our traditions and values because they don't suit people, right?

Canada was founded as a colony of the British Empire, this means we have the Queen HRH Elizabeth II as our monarch, if you have such a problem with our Traditions and Values, absolutely leave. I have no problem saying that. Immigrants who have this problem with swearing allegiance to the head of state of this nation should remember, they came here by choice, they weren't forced to come here, if they can't swear allegiance to the Head of State and respect our national symbols, then perhaps they should go elsewhere.

Its funny you are making an issue of this, you swear an oath of Allegiance in the Netherlands.

[Unsound]

So how are we not free and democratic? Every society demands certain things of it's people. It's called responsibility. Swearing allegiance to the Queen of Canada, is swearing allegiance to Canada. It's a way of saying you accept the responsibilities that come with all the great rights that a Canadian citizen has. If you don't like it, you can stay a PR as DD said, or you can stay in whatever country you came from.

I find it laughable that a communist is getting all twisted up on account of perceived lack of freedom and democracy. Every time, every single time, the system you're a fan of has been put in place "freedom" and "democracy" have become meaningless words used for propaganda, or as key words so the secret police know who to watch.

[Brenda]

llama66 llama66:

So then we should change our traditions and values because they don't suit people, right?

Canada was founded as a colony of the British Empire, this means we have the Queen HRH Elizabeth II as our monarch, if you have such a problem with our Traditions and Values, absolutely leave. I have no problem saying that. Immigrants who have this problem with swearing allegiance to the head of state of this nation should remember, they came here by choice, they weren't forced to come here, if they can't swear allegiance to the Head of State and respect our national symbols, then perhaps they should go elsewhere.

Its funny you are making an issue of this, you swear an oath of Allegiance in the Netherlands.

When have I ever sworn an oath in the Netherlands? The day I was born or something?? I have NEVER raised my hand and repeated after someone that I swore anything. Have you?

I'm not saying anyone should change anything, except you should change your box-thinking. There are many shades of grey that lead to fine residents of this country.

[Xort]

jj2424 jj2424:

It's a meaningless gesture that takes 5 seconds. Maybe it is time to abolish it but that isn't for the newbies to decide through the courts. If it really bothers you stay the fuck out of Canada.

If it's meaningless then why are we doing it?

Canada should become a republic, only a republic is inline with the ideals of Canadians. A core of which is that all people are equal.

But I don't expect much out of reactionary royalists.

[CDN_PATRIOT]

Public_Domain Public_Domain:

Hey, I'm totally cool with forced swearing of oath to the Queen, as long as no one can say we're "free and democratic" anymore.

It's not forced at all. You get a very democratic choice when you arrive in Canada: Swear the oath to the Queen, or get the fuck out.

It's a hell of a lot more of a choice that you get in some countries.

-J.

[Xort]

CDN_PATRIOT CDN_PATRIOT:

It's not forced at all. You get a very democratic choice when you arrive in Canada: Swear the oath to the Queen, or get the fuck out.

Why don't you get the fuck out?
Why do you hate the idea of equality between all people? Why should one person get to be the head of state the most powerful office in the land, because of who their Mom or Dad was? Don't you think we should have the best person in public offic? Not just the one who was born to it?

[Brenda]

I personally find the expected patriotism laughable.

"Swear allegiance to a ceremonial monarch or fuck off. Adore this country, never say anything bad or try to change anything!". What is wrong with staying PR? What is wrong with not liking everything? What is wrong with missing certain things? What is wrong with pointing out what things could be changed for the better? What's wrong with progress???
If I say it, I should shut up, but if my neighbour (a born Canadian citizen) says the exact same thing, everyone is nodding their heads.

[llama66]

I swore an oath, when I was a Peace Officer, I swore allegiance to the Queen and to her successors, and to uphold the laws of this nation. So yes, I have taken an oath.

Its not a shade of grey, its black or white, swear allegiance and be a citizen or don't. I couldn't care less. Just remember you came here, this is my country too, and these are my values and traditions you don't wish partake in.

This is Canada, you are entitled to your beliefs, I happen to disagree. I will support the institutions that make this Country one of the greatest places to live. Sorry if you don't.

[Unsound]

No one said there is anything wrong with being PR. If you're happy with that status and unwilling or unable to do the things necessary to become a citizen, that's your business.

Anyone who says you can't question things or have an opinion unless you're a citizen is a fool.

[llama66]

Xort Xort:

jj2424 jj2424:

It's a meaningless gesture that takes 5 seconds. Maybe it is time to abolish it but that isn't for the newbies to decide through the courts. If it really bothers you stay the fuck out of Canada.

If it's meaningless then why are we doing it?

Canada should become a republic, only a republic is inline with the ideals of Canadians. A core of which is that all people are equal.

But I don't expect much out of reactionary royalists.

A republic is NOT inline with mine or many of my friends ideals.

[Brenda]

My point is pretty simple. You said "Become a citizen (and swear that oath) or fuck off out of my country".

THAT type of intolerance is what I have a problem with. I am a legal resident of this country, and tend to stay that. If you can't deal with that, too bad for you.